Jeff, you are absolutely right mate, keep it simple, keep it basic, keep it BFL, FOUNDATION BY THE BOOK is crucial... then do what just about everyone else does, spread your wings and see what works for you! A lot come back, a lot don't, but it's the structure that this program teaches you, PRICELESS!
ONWARDS AND UPWARDS!
WOW! Such anger on this topic. I will gladly add to this topic when I get a free moment and happily explain as to why Amino's (found in protein and fats) are a necessary building block to creating lean muscle, in turn building a furnace to burn FAT in a rested state and why such drastic caloric deficit (i.e. 1000 calories --- BS) is much more detrimental to overall success. Why 'Interval Fasting' works for some and why 'Mini Meals' (6-8 meals a day) works for others. Until later.
Please let me begin by apologizing to n1na27 for the manner in which your posting was replied to. Although I have never seen such animosity between members, it would appear that even the best of intentions can become obscured when one’s opinion/advice is challenged.
Secondly, let me say to everyone involved in this conversation… not one of us is qualified to give detailed advice to anyone on this or any other weight-loss program! There’s neither a physician nor a nutritionist on the planet that would give such advice without first meeting with a client. As someone who owns a personal training business, I will only give my opinion to my clients as to which direction I believe best meets their respective needs, I would never express my opinion as fact simply because every scenario is different.
With regards to n1na27’s dietary needs, I personally find the following statements irresponsible: “There are woman who should eat a more typical "man's" portion, and the opposite” or “don’t eat more than 1000 calories a day until you are 10lbs away from perfect shape, then you can bump it up to 1500”.
Perhaps the best place for n1na27 to begin would be to discover her BMR (www.bmi-calculator.net/bmr-calculator), and only then can someone assist her with macronutrient needs and how many calories she should consume combined with a strategic exercise plan.
Weight loss is by no means a linear process, and there are many factors that determine just how much weight can be lost. For example, I’m sure that everyone giving their opinion realizes that water and exercise are equally important in weight loss process, and yet no one mentioned that sleep also plays an important role in this process.
I personally believe it best to use this site to assist others with information that has worked for you, and perhaps sprinkle in some well-known weight-loss and/or exercise advice, but delve into medical or scientific writings. Keep in mind that physicians are medical practitioners and not athletic specialists, and that dieticians are not sports nutritionists.
I sincerely wish you the best of luck in your journey to lose weight and begin living a healthier lifestyle.
While I genuinely respect DrivetoSucceed2011 and his wealth of information, I see nothing irresponsible about saying, "There are woman who should eat a more typical "man's" portion". It's precisely aligned with the points conveyed in the rest of his own post... that it would be dependent on the individual. I know women who are 6 ft. and 200 pounds. They would have a portion more like what a typical man would have, and not what I would have at 4'11" (and 3/4) and 115#.
The topic of this conversation should continue in many healthy, respectful, and informative ways. This thread conversation is about done. Let it be so.
Jessica Mighty Max ~ 2013 Body-for-LIFE Champion ~ Champion is a VERB!
For the record when I started in 2008, I did BFL by the original book to the letter and successfully completed 3 challenges.
I've never said BFL doesn't work. It is a good foundation. However there's more than one way to skin a cat. I found by hitting my macros, which is more accurate that guessing, because Palm/fist portions are guessing, that I was not only able to get as lean but it prevented that massive free meal. It is also more accurate to weigh my food. I'm that analytical that I like to know down to the gram what I'm eating.
BFL is a good foundation. The advice is sound and it will get you results. Nothing wrong with it. For me and everyone I train, I've found that setting macro goals and letting the individual hit those goals with foods they enjoy creates a much greater compliance. We all eat our egg whites, oats, rice, chicken, vegetables , but we also fit in the plan cheesecake/key lime pie or whatever food you are craving. It creates moderation and what feels like would be derailing or cheating is staying precisely on the plan and still dropping body fat or gaining muscle, depending on your goals.
I will admit that my delivery needs work lol. Some of that I will say is just what happens via text here. It is one of my goals away from fitness, to work on my delivery. I actually want to help people, and currently am. I just hate poor advice. I prefer less rules. This change should be fun. For example, only eating foods that are "authorized" in the BFL book, while they are good foods, it is shortsighted to be chained to only eating those foods. I'd rather transform smart and eat what I want.
All the best guys and girls,
One of my goals for 2014, and let's be honest, 2013, is to work on my delivery as well.
While just living, and getting healthier, more fit, and even more lean, I am in 100% agreement with Charlie.
1st put a by the book BFL Challenge behind you, and maybe a few, like Charlie did with his 3. Charlie knows a lot about nutrition. He understands macros. He can better manage his daily, weekly macros than someone who comes here needing to finally find a solution. Charlie's clients have Charlie. I think most people need some structure, at least at first. We learned to do the basic lifting exercises before progressing to the more advanced, right?
During a BFL Challenge, an official 12 week BFL Contest, I'm in strong disagreement with Charlie's above post, and not so much because Charlie is "wrong", but because we first need to understand, build a foundation, form structure, and gain control of things that have in mostly all cases been derailed, or we wouldn't be here.
And I would also argue things like needing a "detox" of sorts, and the consistency of that helping us learn our bodies, but another topic... another day.
We could all stand to draw distinctions with some of our advice. Mike Harris once wrong a comical blog called, "It Depends", because that's often the answer, given someone might want to have a challenge winning contest, or get really fit, but not crazy, or lose weight, or just lose a few, or just be healthier, or in some cases, gain... lots of different things fall under the getting healthier and more fit category. Those are all different overlapping goals, and there's not a thing wrong with any of them. It's just important to have actions, and advice, congruous with those goals.
Way to go guys! I have respect for both of you as I've read many of your posts and agree with most of your writings. However, since this is a field of science and because the science of human anatomy and performance is ever changing, I'm sure that we will never totally agree on ever subject that's posted, but we can agree to work together to assist others in their quest for a healthier life!
Jessica has asked for my website (www.BeFitForLife.co), but I must inform you that it is currently not a site for Q&A as it is just a site to promote the business itself. With that being said, I believe that I will take this opportunity to revamp the site in order to add some FAQ's about weight-loss and the like.
I realize that I haven't read anything from n1na27 since the turmoil began, and if I may be so bold as to suggest that one or both of you attempt to reach out to her personally and offer some personal attention.
I realize that I don't visit this site as often as I should or could, but I would like to take this opportunity to thank each of you for making it a great place for others to visit!
Good call on reaching out to n1na27, DrivenToSucceed2011. You are very inclusive, which is the spirit of this site. Thanks.
i have just been having a look at the body for life book again, and nowhere in the book does bill describe what he's doing as "guessing" ? and while i find a lot of this interesting, it can be a little blinded by science for some people, me included.
i have a fist and i look for a potato roughly that size, i look for a chicken breast roughly that size. how hard is that ?
i can see some weaker willed people reading some advice & thinking, hmmm maybe charlies right for instance, and BANG there goes another doubter.
this is body for life, its hard enough for some people without all the information overload.
i'm finding some of the comments insulting to bill, and even though i never knew mike, some would find some comments insulting to mike.
read the book, stick to the book, it works.
heck i havent even started yet and i'm 100 % commited.
right, rant over. have a good bfl day.
My success is your success.
Nothing wrong with BFL Jeff, there are smarter ways to train and more importantly eat. BFL says either salmon 3 times a week or 1 tbsp of unsaturated oil daily. Considering fats are Essential, do you think that men and women of all different height/weight/activity levels should all get the same amount? So you think 14g of fat is all men and women need daily? That's just absurd.
Also Jeff! I stated I I've done 3 challenges. Years ago I posted my before and afters, lost 140 lbs. 348 to 208. I've always said BFL for life works if you follow it. However, I hated always eating the massive cheat meal it was always counterintuitive to keep shedding bodyfat. So I got smart. I have macro goals that allow me to eat the foods I would on a cheat day/meal and never get of track and I keep shedding lbs. As far as I'm concerned that is the best way for me to go about it. So yes when I give information, I will tell people about BFL, and what I am doing currently that is much easier to stick with.
The way I see it is, the less rules the greater the compliance. And we all know how big nutrition is in getting peeled. Life happens, sometimes you can't get 6 meals, why have someone stress over it, when it doesn't matter. Hit your macros, that's what matters.
And for the how simple it is to get palm portions of protein and carb. Yes! It is simple. But what happens 14 weeks in when your fat loss stalls. Where do you go from there if everything is guessing? Do you just go down more cardio in hope to burn it off? You could, probably not optimal. If you are accurately trackjng your food, you actually know what you are putting in your body and how to adjust. I'm kinda going overboard here but you get my point.
I'll say this in having used both approaches. As far as outward appearances go, if anyone wants to get fit, lose some lbs, gain a little muscle then follow BFL to the letter! It works! But if you wanna get peeled/shredded, you will need to weigh your food and be willing to put in more than the book states.
IMO and I don't think it's close, when you look at jaw dropping results as a whole group year to year from BFL, the first year in which abb Ansley, porter freeman, Lynn lingenfelter, Everett Herbert and the others competed in the body of work film, they all had the best transformations in terms of getting ripped with the most muscle. And after speaking with several of them about what they did, none of them did BFL. It was all bodybuilding splits, cardio, meticulous eating etc.
Follow BFL and you can get in great shape, feel great and it won't take much time out of your day.
If you wanna get shredded, be expected to do more.
thanks for your reply charlie, i really do see your point.
but at this moment in time more than ever i need a plan to stick to and the bfl plan is the one.
i'm just a little confused now after reading your comment about abb ansley and the other champions, you state that none of them did body for life, so it has got me thinking the before and after pics are a big con. maybe this body for life plan just isn't for me. i go by the results, and if those results are gained by means contrary to body for life, then i'm sorry but i can't stick to a plan which cons me.
or maybe it isn't, the last thing i expected on this forum is conflicting evidence.
maybe that's why so many people fail at it.
this is the last thing i needed at this vulnerable stage in my life.
thanks charlie, your doing a great job. keep it up.
Stick to the plan! Charlie's information was mostly right, though in this case, not helpful. It was meant to be helpful, so I'll give him that.
As I just said on the other thread:
The original champs absolutely did follow BFL, though with a few differences. They worked out HARDER, in many cases didn't take a free day at all, and were ultra ultra strict. They were precise, and didn't do these quasi diet foods like some try today. The followed Bill's plan. Remember that the BFL book didn't even come out until AFTER the original BFL Champions. Those people read about it in Muscle Media, Bill's magazine. I will say I think the original 5 did a more bodybuilding lifting plan, so yes, that was different, though again, BFL was not out. So you could say they didn't follow BFL, but most of the pictures you've seen are from those who did BFL as written in the book!
The original champs did NOT go by macros. They went by the BFL plan, but chose the best possible options for their food choices.
Is Charlie wrong? Yes... and No. Let me clear up that confusion. For at least your first 12 week BFL Challenge, go with BFL as written. Charlie's advice is correct, though not on contest. You tried it your way. That didn't work. Now do the plan as written.
Charlie is correct on fats. In Bill's defense, we knew so little about dietary fats then. We thought they were bad, and that is not true. Also, though askew from Charlie's point about different people needing different amounts, dietary fats are often damaged in the cooking process, rendering the food fine, though the fats not useful. Women and men would get different amounts based on having different portion sizes, though I'm on Charlie's side on there being more factors.
The answer is fish oil. You should be taking it. The old bodybuilder rule, which is very debatable, is 1g of fish oil for every 1% of body fat. If you're 30% body fat, then 30g. I'm all for fats, and especially fish oil, but am thinking that's an unnecessary amount, especially given body builders aren't 30%.. or whatever. They are much lower. Solution. Go get Carlson's Best Fish Oil. Take 3-4 tablespoons a day. Don't worry. It doesn't taste like fish. It's lemon or orange flavored. In addition to that, include dietary fats in your plan, like egg yolks and avocado.
I saw that you were upset by all the confusion and looking to head out of here. Jeff... stick with us.
I believe Charlie meant to be helpful. I think he was making a point about free days being binge fests for some, which isn't good, despite it being free. His point is also that such rigid rules make people fall off, and having some flex with macros will keep you on plan, and gaining results. He might be right there, but the original champs were ultra strict AT FIRST.
There's a time and place to adjust to the for life part. I think Charlie has the for life part down beautifully. I'm not disrespecting that or him, though you are not at that point, so for now stick to the original plan.
Got it, buddy? Sorry about all the confusion.
I wasn't trying to confuse anyone, literally giving an honest account of what I have actually done. So how about this, do BFL by the book for 12 weeks and track your results. I know it will work, it's worked for thousands. But do that for 12 weeks and see your results. If you're not satisfied or not getting the results you want, shoot me an email and I'll set up your macros for you, no strings attached.
Everyone wants you to succeed here Jeff,
All the best,
I have to admit today was bad for me personally, and perhaps i get fragile.
Being so new to this forum & not having any history of bfl, i have this set idea of how things should be.
I am just glad i have my health & family. & also this forum.
As the saying goes "when your going through hell, keep going"
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