The Peanut Butter Debate - HELP!

  • After doing several challenges since 2003 my general feeling is to avoid peanut butter altogether except on free days. It contains a ton of calories for such a small amount that to me its not worth it. I too love peanut butter and usually for breakfast on my free day I'll a few pieces of toast with peanut butter. Others may have a different opinion but I basically avoid it. Hope this helps.

    fit4life "The dream must be bigger than the pain"

  • Figawu- Thank you for posting the list. I totally understand the limits and I will surely stick to minimal amounts during the BFL week (2T) and I will probably have a Chocolate Peanut Butter Shake another day. On my free day I will do the true PBJ and Milk. Yep 42 going on 7. Everyone keeps harping on portion control as a reason to not have it. All I can do is try. If I fail then it gets tossed. I am disabled and also have depression and chronic insomnia. I have had 4 back surgeries, two of them MAJOR fusions. Somedays its just to had to whip up something more than a half PB sandwich and some Cottage Cheese. At 4am in the morning and I am out of Protein bars and small PB Sandwich will cut the hunger pangs that make it that much more difficult to fall asleep. I will also consider your meal structure as it makes good sense.

    Legs C3 - I know the list as I have the book right in front of me. That doesn't invalidate what is on the website. The book list was shortened IMO do to space. Its not a very big book and it just barely touches on meals. Its more basic philosophy and some basic workouts with some nutrition in the middle. Trust me, if everyone had to stick to just that list alone, a lot of people would bail. It would just get to repetitive.

    DaveND, I once was 6'5+ but after my spine surgeries I lost an inch easily. I dont have the frame to get below 235-240. We'll see when I get there and If I can go lower I will as long as I look healthy. I am wide shouldered and have big joints. I have 5 Brothers all older than me and they all are at least 235 (one is only 6'2). I do have a Bro that is 400+. I mentioned that I started BFL once before and went from 296 to 268 in 3 months with ZERO work out. I tend to carry a lot of water weight if we just barely step out on eating good. However, I have had probably 3 sodas in the last 3 months. I drink water and if I drink anything else its Lipton Diet Ice Tea Citrus and I have them pretty infrequent. We just got in the habit of eating out too much because of time. All the external BS is over and we can start over.

    ray72kcc, I got the email of your post while I am posting this. Tell me why PB is better left to free days. Its on the Essential Oil list. If you want to use the slippery slope or portion control can get away from you I get you. But that is you and you had your chance to fail. I went off the diet for external family reason and started eating PB sandwiches. It was better that a Big Mac, Now, with the super health PB I think I can maintain.

    Thanks to all the helped. I really appreciated it. Still dont know what the proper serving it so I am going with 2T like figawu  suggested. Have a great day!

  • This post is to everyone.

    I agree with Legs, that the original book by Bill Phillips contains better food information.  I believe it also does a better job of explaining the why's behind limiting the food list.  I think the 2nd book and food lists on the web site were tweaked to add some things to keep people from complaining so much about food restrictions.  It's true that the only way for someone to really know for sure, is to try it and see what results they get.  However, there are roughly 15 years worth of finished and unfinished challenges out there to give us a pretty good idea what  is likely to lead to a successful challenge.  I don't believe PB would be found on the eating list of many (if any) of the Champions and success stories.  Again, it comes down to what your goals are, and how important the results are to you.

    Best regards to all.

  • Honestly, I love natural peanut butter and before BFL I lost 40 pounds on my own eating natural peanut butter, whey protein and cottage cheese.  With a few salads mixed.  

    I am not eating pnut butter now because its not in the book, but I'd like to know why its not authorized also.  Do we count calories or no?  People argue the amount of calories in pnut butter, well, what about cholesterol in tuna and some canned chicken?  Why don't people argue why THEY are authorized foods?  

    I know this program is different so I don't argue about pnut butter on here, but honestly this is the first program I've heard that poo poo's natural peanut butter.  A lot of foods don't carry "essential" nutrients but have other great qualities like the muscle regrowth pnut butter assists with.

    I think it was left out originally because it wasn't a big "fad" to eat natural peanut butter years ago and from a businessman standpoint, he'd be going against A LOT of opinions at the time, that said PEANUT BUTTER IS BAD.  So he left it out to avoid the contoversy and to avoid people thinking his system was wrong.  Remember, when he started all of this and it first came out, calorie counting and low fat WAS the fad.  Peanut butter doesn't fit that.

    I could be wrong.. I may very well be.  But I'm sticking to the program for my 12 weeks and will probably incorporate pnut butter in my diet AFTER THE CHALLENGE since I don't agree that it should be left out.

  • I agree with DaveND and Champster09. :-)

    Rosemary - Really...if you read the book you know we don't count calories.  I personally do not want to argue about what works.  If you want to eat peanut butter, or whatever else then eat it.  No one is going to rail you for it.  It's your results, no one else.  

    Love you some you...PERSEVERE!

  • Wow.. I know we don't count calories... I was responding to what fit4life wrote about there being too many calories.  MY POINT WAS WE DON'T COUNT CALORIES.

    If I want to eat canolis and pizza I would eat that too.  That's not what this thread was talking about.  There was a debate on peanut butter.  

  • Peanut Butter is left out because it really doesn't add value.  I agree with Champster on most topics, but on this one we differ.  I don't think she is "wrong", but rather that there might be a more refined answer.  She's correct that people adding mass can have Natural PB because they can take more calories.  It's not about counting calories, but about what that type of body can process with the rest of the intake vs. a body with different needs, like weight loss.  

    I'm more aligned with Dave and Sharon here.

    Natural PB is not authorized because it doesn't add value.  It has a lot of calories, but fails to deliver anything in return.  It has some Omega 6, but that's it.  Omega 3 is what you need and Omega 6 comes in so many foods we eat that it seems silly to have something with no additional benefit to get it there.  

    It doesn't assist with muscle growth.  

    Jessica Mighty Max ~ 2013 Body-for-LIFE Champion ~ Champion is a VERB!

  • With most natural PB, you might be surprised to compare the nutrition information to a jar of good old Jiff (my favorite!)  It's true that the ingredients in natural PB may be somewhat better than Jiff, but when checking the calories, fat, carbs, protein, etc. you will find they're a LOT closer than most people think.  In fact, pretty close to equal.  It's true that in BFL we're taught not to count calories.  That's because it's assumed that we're not eating things like PB that are hard to measure with the fist and palm method.  Anytime you throw in what I would call "extras" then the calories are important to be aware of.  FWIW, I will again say that I love PB.  I could eat it everyday and never get tired of it.  When I'm where I want to be (weight-wise) I love to add a little to oatmeal.  And it's a regular free day food for me.

  • The point about calories was not to say that we count them.  It's a matter of best options.  Egg whites are the only natural pure protein for instance. They are low in calories and therefore a better option than lean steak in most instances.  We don't count calories, but it's also accurate to say that calories count.  

    Jessica Mighty Max ~ 2013 Body-for-LIFE Champion ~ Champion is a VERB!

  • First of all, I love Naturally More PB! As much control as I've mustered over food, I still do not buy the Naturally More brand, because the texture and taste is just too tantalizing for me. It IS a really good choice as far as PB goes, but I can't trust myself around it being in my house. 

    Second of all, you are 6'4" and only looking to lose 40 lbs to reach 240. I know BFL is all about portion size and not about calorie counting everything to death. However, I think this situation is a perfect example of how using calories as a "guide" can sometimes be helpful.  Even though I'm not a registered dietician, I help people lose weight all the time with great results, so here is what I think....I think you can be eating upwards of 2400 calories any given day IF you are truly working out intensely according to the BFL plan and also spacing your meals apart as equally as possible and doing so like clockwork consistently. (so 300-400 calories 6 times per day basically)

    In my opinion, you can have your cottage cheese + both halves of that whole wheat sandwich thin + 2 tbsp. of pb...that's still less than 400 calories, and it is absolutely BFL approved. There are BFL recipes in Eating-for-LIFE that use peanut butter as well just fyi. However, do I think you should make this a staple in your meal plan every day?...not so much. It's still a tad high in fat. So do it if you must, but do it in moderation, and ONLY if you can be honest about your portions and not go overboard with it. Again, I just admitted that I don't even trust myself around Naturally More PB. The Skippy Natural...not so much of a temptation for me and it can sit in my cabinet all day long. If you start grabbing random and unplanned BLT's (bites, licks and tastes), then that's a sign that you can be trusted around it and need to re-evaluate having it in the house. 

    One trick that might seem silly that I like for people who must have their peanut butter, is the out of sight out of mind technique. I know it might seem odd, but it works. Try putting your jar of PB on a really high (or really low in your case;) shelf way in the back of your pantry where you can't see it. That way you have to dig for it when you need it, instead of having this easy open jar of peanut butter facing you at eye level each time you open your pantry door. Once you portion out your PB, put it all the way back in the back again. Things that have any history of temptation for you shouldn't be so easily accessible. Fresh vegetables should be easy to grab and at eye level....PB should not.

    One more thing, have you heard of PB2?  This might be an option to satisfy your love for PB and keep your wife happy about not having PB in the house at the same time. You can start making your own peanut butter protein shakes and all kinds of other stuff. Check it out....

    http://www.bellplantation.com/nutrition

     

     

    "If you want something you've never had, you must do things you've never done!"

  • I am a bit suprised on how this forum has turned. A man came here asking for help. He obviously wants peanut butter and the new body for life food list has approved it for authorized fats. This is body for life it is suppose to be a life change that does not stop at 12 wks. So realistically if the man likes pb after he finish the challenges he would eat it. This is a begginer and i know some of you are champions and have great advise but lets show him a little love. Lets support him in his decision and make him feel comfortable about asking questions in the future.

    What is a body for life champion?

    Champions are ones who have won the challenge but i believe their are unknown and un-named champions that continue to do body for life and have transformed their lives. It took them longer than 12 wks but life is a marathon not a sprint.

    I am sure you will slam me for this but lets turn this forum into a healthy forum of support. Especially since the 800# has approved the natural pb. I know the O.G. BFL book did not have it but remember science is always changing. If it wasn't for the allowed fats, i don't believe my wife would have ever decided to do body for life 4 Life and yes she does eat pb.

    BFL FAMILY unite and pay it forward.

  • I'm not an expert and don't have a lot of experience yet, but I eat natural peanut butter (Adams) on non-free days.  Thing is, I don't eat it everyday, maybe once or twice a week and I spread it very thin.  For example, sometimes my breakfast is a whole wheat pancake with a thin spread of the adams.  I'm talking paper thin.  It gives the pancake some flavor and protein.  I don't think it's all that bad, but I wouldn't go overboard.  I'm a noob so I might be wrong.

  • Figawu - I think you're misunderstanding the intent here.  You're right, it is Body For Life.  And you're right that after he finishes his challenge, he might eat PB without anyone thinking anything about it.  The point is, that by his own declaration, he isn't where he wants to be yet.  And a lot of people over the years, who really wanted to reach their goals, have failed, in part because they make well-intended, small, concessions and that leads to other little concessions, and finally to a failed challenge and someone giving up.  I for one am not trying to give him a hard time, I just really want him to succeed and I don't think PB will help make that happen.  Why be upset with the answer to a question just because it isn't the answer you wanted to hear?  In other words, if he's already made up his mind to eat PB, then that's fine, don't ask the question, just eat the PB.  My advice came from a well-intended desire to see him succeed.  I'm sure that everyone else's advice comes from that same desire.

  • figawu, thanks for your help! I can't believe where this conversation has gone. While my original post was long the basic question was really really simple. I also love how people speculate about the book vs. the website and that the website isn't the "true BFL". That's crap and its coming from die hard staunch consevative BFL'ers that are unbending and stubborn.

    Someone mentioned something about PB adding no value. Hilarious. Did you read the the post about whats in it? 11g of fat yet 4.1g of it is Omega 3. Did ya miss under carbs the 4g of dietary fiber which is 16%. Read the label at the very bottom. I am not saying its a super food and that wasn't the question. The question was was how much is ok?

    I mentioned that I have done BFL before, twice. The 1st time I lost 35 some odd pounds. My very very close Brother had a heart attack, my Granny had what appeared to be a mini stroke and my significant back problems flared up which led to a bout of severe insomnia. With all the chaos it was very hard to stay on course. We had to eat out more because we live 30+ minutes from the Hospital and where my Brother and granny were. One of the meds that I was on for Insomnia lists as its 3rd side effect weight gain. So, while I had lost a good deal of weight, we got sidetracked I am put some back on. However, we ate smarter when we ate out. It just wasn't BFL. As soon as I went of that med the weight fell off me within a week (20lbs). I suspect it was mostly water weight.

    I think I already mentioned this but I have had 4 back surgeries and a shoulder surgery. I had a two level neck FUSION w/titanium in '04 and a three level lumbar fusion w/titanium in '07. I have nerve damage in my upper back, shoulder and right leg and have serious degenerative disk disease in my ENTIRE spine. I am only 42. Don't get me wrong, this isn't a woes me statement. I just want some of you Champions to realize that BFL doesn't have to mean competition only! I am not working on the challenge. My health is just too inconsistent to even try. Some days I can't even get out of bed. Most days I am up for an hour and down for an hour. I can do a little walking but that is it.

    My point is simple. I am using BFL to loose weight and live longer. I proved I could do it once. I nolonger take the sleeping med that makes you gain weight. I am not looking to be on the inside cover of some book or on the website as a Champion. I am happy and amazed at the transformations I have seen and you Champs should be proud of yourselves. But please don't hold everyone to YOUR standards as we are all on different paths. Please don't use the book as if it was the bible and the website as blasphemy unless you have proof that its not really BFL. If the website isn't really BFL doesn't that bother you? Doesn't it mean to you that BFL sold out? Plus, IMO there are a very limited number of people that could sustain the Books limited food list for 12 weeks, let alone a life time. Think about it. Especially when the food we are talking about has the same levels of fat/protein/carbs as approved book food.

    Good God it was a simple question and my email box has been bombarded with email notifications about this and 75% of the post are off topic. I got the info I need. If you want to argue about the Sanctity of BFL and how PB is a mortal sin even though its listed on the website and in several recipes, so be it.

    I am out this thread. This forum is not moderated and its to much a freeforall. Peace. Here is the label for those that didn't look at the website.


     

     

  • Bilbo99 I'm sorry this turned into more than you expected.  I didn't see this in your initial posts, but for anyone who posts a question, it may be a good idea to indicate whether or not you are in a challenge or asking a general question just for your personal FYI.  In all fairness, I'd leave the word "Debate" out of the subject of a thread...looks like in the end that's what this turned into.

    I think most of us tend to assume when questions are asked that the person asking is looking for best results by the end of 12 weeks (whether in it to win or not).  I know that is not true for everyone but when someone has a question those who respond have no way of knowing in which direction to go in their attempt to help so we do the best we can and most keep their response simple and to the point.  I think there were some really great responses here along with some points to ponder but in a forum it happens.  Generally, it is best to ask the folks running this website any questions you may have.  They are great really great at answering questions.  I would think they can address the why PB is on this website and not in the book or answering Bilbo99's initial question.  They can be reached at 1-800-297-9776, 8:30am-5:00pm Monday through Friday EST.

    Bilbo99, if you are up to it, once you get an answer, perhaps come back here and let us all know what they tell you.

    Hope this helps.

    Love you some you...PERSEVERE!